When does your day begin and when begins God His day

All over the world, we can find several calendars which have the week beginning on another day. But when wants one to start a day?

In a certain way, we need some agreement on an arrangement for choosing a system for dividing time over extended periods, such as days, months, or years, and arranging such divisions in a definite order.
Here in West Europe for practical reasons, the standard week begins on Monday and ends on Sunday, and for the Catholics and most Protestant denominations, Sunday is considered the day of rest and ‘Day of the Lord’.

For the majority, the day also commences when they wake up and go to do their daily busyness. Getting up in time is for most of us the most important event of the day. When we hear our alarm clock, that means we are still alive, and we can face again another day.

Frank Hubeny is a Christian who moved to Miami Beach, Florida. He voted for Donald Trump in 2020 and is a pro-life and pro-Israel, and loves Catholics. By hearing those things, we may assume he is one of those conservative and perhaps fundamentalist American Christians. He suspects most people are aware that the biblical day begins at sunset

or early evening sometime if one can’t see the sun actually set. {Exploration 103 – The Day Begins At Sunset}

Though, I think most people do not relate the day setting to something which is indicated in the Bible or any other ‘holy Scriptures‘. But he agrees that

Skyline of Kaohsiung harbour, Taiwan at sunrise.

there are people who would disagree with this biblical interpretation promoting sunrise rather than sunset as the starting point. {Exploration 103 – The Day Begins At Sunset}

There are those who refer to Jeshua, the Messiah who would have brought some new ‘Covenant Calendar’ or would have done away with the Torah, which is not so at all.

Jeshua, or Jesus as a Jew held himself to the Torah and was very well aware of God’s Law given to mankind for good reason. He went to the synagogue on Friday night, which is at the beginning of the Sabbath. From sunset on Friday to nightfall of the following day Jeshua or Jesus also kept himself to the regulations for that day of the week, which was the closing day of the week. The day after was the first day of the week and would be our Sunday. By most Christians, that day is considered to be “the Lord’s Day”, or the weekly memorial of Jesus Christ’s Resurrection from the dead. The title of that day can be very misleading because it can insinuate that it is God His day, though all days belong to God and those Christians holding on to that Day of the Lord mean with it that it is the day of Christ, or even worse, as their day of their god, namely having Jesus as their god.

In our present time or modern culture, most people have been raised to believe that a new day begins at midnight. The majority of people are not interested in the Bible and as such never looked for being in agreement with such a book, which is taken by others as their guide for life. Not following an Al-Haadi or such Guide for life, they just go by their feeling and custom to stand up after a night’s rest.

For them, there is no reason to think about a Scriptural reason and as such, there is no scriptural precedent for their belief, and the way that midnight is reckoned today would be impossible without mechanical clocks.

Others, such as myself, are more than willing to set them straight since fixing the other guy is more entertaining than fixing oneself. {Exploration 103 – The Day Begins At Sunset}

EliYah Ministries claims to be a place for people to read more about the Hebrew Roots of their faith, and has its name chosen because YLiYah means it means “My Mighty One is Yahweh” and this is the message that they seem to want to proclaim. Strangely enough they give the impression that they are Jewish but seem to take Jeshua or Jesus also as their god Yahweh. Though Jesus or Jeshua is not Jehovah, the God of Israel, but is the son of God and son of man, a human being.

“40 ولكنكم الآن تطلبون ان تقتلوني وانا انسان قد كلمكم بالحق الذي سمعه من الله.هذا لم يعمله ابراهيم. 41 انتم تعملون اعمال ابيكم.فقالوا له اننا لم نولد من زنا.لنا اب واحد وهو الله.” (يو 8:40-41 Arabic)

“40 But now you seek to kill me, a man that has told you the truth, which I have heard from God: this did not Abraham. 41 You do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We are not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.” (Joh 8:40-41 KJBPNV)

Funny also that those writers of that site also recognise that

the translators admit they substituted Yahweh’s name for a title. All for the sake of an tradition. Yahweh’s name is in scripture nearly 7000 times. And nearly 7000 times they replaced it (not translated it) with “the LORD”, or “GOD”. Imagine that? They took His name out of His own book! {Yahushua is the True Name of the Messiah}

Also, they agree with Matthew Henry’s Commentary (on Matthew 1:21)

“Jesus is the same name with Joshua, the termination only being changed, for the sake of conforming it to the greek.” {Yahushua is the True Name of the Messiah}

Though somehow they begin to use those two different names Jehovah/Yahweh and Yahushua/Yahusha/Jeshua/Jesus interchangeably and say that Jeshua – for them: god –  changed the ‘day’. Even when they say themselves

I wouldn’t want someone to change my name unless it was Yahweh, and it is clear that according to the third commandment Yahweh doesn’t want anyone to change or falsify His name either.

Think about this for a moment. What makes man think he has the authority to change the name of the one who created him, and who created all things? We don’t have that right! For instance, in the scriptures we see that one who changes the name of another is always in authority over them. The Messiah renamed Simon. Yahweh renamed Abram to Abraham. He renamed Jacob to Israel. Adam named the animals. Even we name our children, not the other way around. Yahweh, our Heavenly Father, named His Son ‘Yahushua’ in Matt 1:22. {Why people of all languages must call upon the name of Yahweh}

So, why do they change the name of Jehovah in Yahwe and in Yahushua? Clearly, they themselves say God named His son Yahushua or (in short or as a call sign) Jeshua. Furthermore, that site indicates:

Also, notice that Matthew 28:1 says it is “after the Sabbath” which indicates the first day of the week has begun. The sun had not yet risen though because it says that it was “toward dawn.”

Matthew 28:1(ISR) Now after the Sabbath, toward dawn on the first day of the week, Miryam from Magdala and the other Miryam came to see the tomb. {When Does the Sabbath Start?}

Toward dawn, means close to dawn, which is after the darkest point of night; and that moment they considered already to be the first day of the week. They also notice

the word used in Matthew 28:1 “toward dawn” describes same period of time as John 20:1– the time when they started heading toward the tomb. It was still technically dark outside, but the light of dawn was on the horizon. {When Does the Sabbath Start?}

We should remember:

So based on the … accounts, it is evident that the chronology was that the women started heading to the tomb before the sun rose on the first day of the week, they bought spices “after the Sabbath” yet before sunrise, and they arrived at the tomb at sunrise.

Here is a summary of how these accounts actually contradict “sunrise to sunrise” Sabbath keeping:

  1. John 20:1 says that it was “on the first day of the week”, yet it was “still dark.” Therefore the first day of the week had already begun prior to sunrise.
  2. Mark 16:1 says that they bought spices “when the Sabbath was passed,” yet it was before the sun had risen, proving the Sabbath ended at sundown.
  3. Matthew 28:1 says that it was “after the Sabbath” during the period of time that it began to “grow light,” a word that describes the period of time just before sunrise.

Therefore, these verses clearly support the fact that the Sabbath ends at sundown and the first day of the week was already in motion prior to sunrise.

EVENING TO EVENING

Scripture plainly commands “from evening to evening you shall celebrate your Sabbath.”

Leviticus 23:27-Also the tenth day of this seventh month shall be the Day of Atonement. It shall be a holy convocation for you; you shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire to Yahweh. 28 – And you shall do no work on that same day, for it is the Day of Atonement, to make atonement for you before Yahweh your Elohim. 29 – For any person who is not afflicted in soul on that same day shall be cut off from his people. 30 – And any person who does any work on that same day, that person I will destroy from among his people. 31 – You shall do no manner of work; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 32 – It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.”

Numbers 29:7- On the tenth day of this seventh month you shall have a holy convocation. You shall afflict your souls; you shall not do any work.

Since Yahweh doesn’t contradict Himself, it is no contradiction that the 10th day of the month is “Yom Kippur/Day of Atonement” while also commanding that we begin and end this day at evening. Since the 10th day began and ended at evening, the days surrounding it would need to begin and end at evening as well. Thus, all days begin and end at evening.

Another example:

Exodus 12:15-Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall remove leaven from your houses. For whoever eats leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel. 16 – On the first day there shall be a holy convocation, and on the seventh day there shall be a holy convocation for you. No manner of work shall be done on them; but that which everyone must eat — that only may be prepared by you. 17 – So you shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this same day I will have brought your armies out of the land of Egypt. Therefore you shall observe this day throughout your generations as an everlasting ordinance. 18 – In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening. 19 – For seven days no leaven shall be found in your houses, since whoever eats what is leavened, that same person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is a stranger or a native of the land.

Notice that the same language which described the timing of the tenth day of the seventh month (Day of Atonement) is also used to describe when the fifteenth day of the first month (the Feast of Unleavened Bread).

EliYah Ministries agrees with the fact that we should best look at a day from evening to evening.

The scriptures seem pretty clear to me that Yahweh reckons days from evening to evening. While modern reckoning is from midnight to midnight, we need to submit ourselves to the daily heavenly clock that Yahweh Himself established at creation. It makes perfect sense that a day ends when a day ends…at evening. {When Does the Sabbath Start?}

That seems very clear, though several Messianic groups have their Sabbath service on Saturday afternoon. But in Wintertime than the sun has already gone down (like in West of Europe or in the Northern Hemisphere from October to March). For us, it is then no Sabbath anymore but the first day of the week, the Sunday.

There are also groups which say Jeshua/Jesus with his blood made a new covenant so that the old covenant is of no value anymore.

The studies of Covenant Calendar must take time to reflect how this full and complete understanding was born – basically through the most important study of the Melchizedek Priesthood.  The Priesthood study provided the platform that declares this Covenant Calendar is indeed blood-ratified and eternally sealed by Yahusha in His witness through the gospel – especially in His death, burial, resurrection and two ascensions.  Therefore, our most sincere thanks go out to the Supreme Provider Yahusha Ha Mashiach for His guidance and direction through this incredible study.  {What in the world is a Biblical the Torah Yahuwah’s Covenant Calendar}

Seemingly in the United States, there are many groups who find people have to keep the Sabbath, but their interpretation of what has to be the Sabbath seems so different from what we can find in the bible and by standard Jewish people.

However, the fourth commandment expects us to keep the Sabbath (aka Sunday) holy. How are we going to do that if we don’t know when He wants the Sabbath to start and end? It is after all His commandment, not ours, to get some rest. Others think their acceptance of Yeshua (Jesus) allows them do what they want. They might be right. It might not be a salvation issue, but we may still be making a mess of our lives by not doing what He wants while we have the opportunity. {Exploration 103 – The Day Begins At Sunset}

That are the big questions:

How can we keep a holy day before God?

&

What is a holy day in God’s Eyes?

Next to the question:

When is the holy day for God?

Or

When is the Sabbath?

Another question may arise as well. According to many Jehudim or Jews and Jeshuaists the Day of God must start with prayer, and as such has to start with prayers at home, followed by prayers at the synagogue or temple. For them, it is not that

Every day begins with the first LIGHT in the “dawn” sky called twilight.  While the sunrise may be very close behind, the day does NOT begin with sunrise, but with light.  Everything on Day 1 of Creation began with LIGHT … and do remember there was no sunrise “or” sunset until the 4th day of creation.   {What in the world is a Biblical the Torah Yahuwah’s Covenant Calendar}

That looks like twisting the words of the bible. It was out of the void that the world was created. And when there was chaos there was also darkness.

“و“And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” (Ge 1:2 KJBPNV)

So first, the formless earth had darkness around it. A few verses later we come to read that there came to be evening, and as such came to pass a first day by the rising of the morning.

“And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.” (Ge 1:5 KJBPNV)

You see:

the Evening and the morning formded the first day

and not

the morning and the evening formde the day.

It is Jehovah God Who starts with everything; He starts His moment of creation by bringing order in the chaos. It was God Who said to have luminaries come to be in the expanse of the heavens, to make a division between the day and the night.

“14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.” (Ge 1:14-19 KJBPNV)

For God it came to completion after He had giving vegetation to man. By the sun going down, heavens and the earth and all their army had come to completion. So God proceeded to rest on the seventh day, from all His work that He had made.

“31  And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. 2:1  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.” (Ge 1:31-2:1 KJBPNV)

“And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.” (Ge 2:2 KJBPNV)

It was that seventh day that God blessed and made sacred, not the first day.

“And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.” (Ge 2:3 KJBPNV)

The Bible present us by God doing its first Work, when there is darkness. Light came only afterwards. We have a set of periods which always end by darkness coming in again. And as such to me that looks clearly like a new period to come into the picture. A new day.

The sunset-start day puts what God does first. It makes sure what we do later during daylight hours is subordinate to what He wants, not what we want, not even what we think is possible for us to do. {Exploration 103 – The Day Begins At Sunset}

writes Hubeny. And for him, that’s the main reason why he favours having the day begin at sunset,

the time we stop working and acknowledge He is in control to begin  the new day as the old one ends. {Exploration 103 – The Day Begins At Sunset}

This also seems logical, when you consider that at the moment of creation, one is busy. During the day, we have to do our daily job. Often we do not find enough time to honour God (except with our work). But when we have done our daily duties, then comes the moment we can take more time for God. As such, there is also the Friday night, when most of us can put work down and forget it for one or two days.

At sunset, we can come to rest, like God also came to rest. Then arrives the moment we can give all our time to Allah Al-Aliyy, in recognition and respect for all the things He has done and still does for us.

+++

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16 Comments

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16 responses to “When does your day begin and when begins God His day

  1. Thanks for the mention! –

    Like

  2. gershomid

    May I ask about something in this post that says that it a bad or untrue, to think of Jesus as God, but there are many verses that say Jesus is both man and God, for example:
    Philippians 2:5-6 “You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.”
    and
    1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.“
    and by Jesus’s own words:
    John 8:57-58 “The people said, “You aren’t even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?” Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!”

    So why do you think Jesus isn’t God?
    Maybe I have misread your post, if I do, I am sorry

    Like

    • Dear,
      Thank you very much for your reply with some interesting references to biblical verses/

      Lets start with your first one: 1 John 5:20. In it is written
      1Jn 5:20 Arabic SVD  وَنَعْلَمُ أَنَّ ابْنَ اللهِ قَدْ جَاءَ وَأَعْطَانَا بَصِيرَةً لِنَعْرِفَ الْحَقَّ. وَنَحْنُ فِي الْحَقِّ فِي ابْنِهِ.
      يَسُوعَ الْمَسِيحِ. هَذَا هُوَ الإِلَهُ الْحَقُّ وَالْحَيَاةُ الأَبَدِيَّةُ.

      “ونعلم ان ابن الله قد جاء واعطانا بصيرة لنعرف الحق.ونحن في الحق في ابنه يسوع المسيح.هذا هو الاله الحق والحياة الابدية.” (1يو 5:20 Arabic)

      Which gives in English the (seemingly) confusing text: “And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us insight so that we may know the truth. We are in the truth in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.” (1 John 5:20 Arabic)

      Though may I point out you seem to miss a very important little word (or two words): “in his

      The apostle John writes in his letter about our position and how we formerly ourselves belonged to that world which is in the evil one (Gal. 1:4), know that the Son of God has come, a) and that the same Son has given us by his renewing, enlightening and sanctifying Spirit the understanding, such a condition of the heart, that we know the Truthful One, namely God (1Jo. 2.4; John 17:3) For John Jesus is the son of God and not God himself. He believes that God is no liar and that God declared Jesus to be His only begotten son.

      “21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Yahshua also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, You are my beloved Son; in you I am well pleased. 23 And Yahshua himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,” (Lu 3:21-23 KJBPNV)

      Do you then not believe God is telling the truth? We also later find Jesus telling

      “You have heard how I said to you, I go away, and come again to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go to the Father: for my Father is greater than I” (Joh 14:28 KJBPNV)

      also recognise s his heavenly Father to be someone else than him, though there you also not seem to believe Jesus and wants to see Jesus being the same one as God. Though does not tell the bible tell us no one can see God and live. At the same time the Bibble tells us God can nto die. WHen Jesusis God then he can not die and as such faked his death. But for what use would be such a charade?

      Going back to your first mentioned verse. The letter writer wants to have his readers to understand that followers of Christ should be in the Truthful One. He indicates that we are in the fellowship of life with the Truthful One. (John 17.3) and we are in the Truthful One; we are in communion with the Truthful One (Chap. 1:6; 2:5). Because we are in him, namely in His (= Allah – Jehovah God) Son Jesus Christ, the Mediator of all fellowship with the Father (1 Tim. 2:5), we occupy such a position in relation to God (John 17:23). This God and Father, the apostle is talking about, is inseparably one with Christ, His Son (1Jo 3:24), and is the true God and eternal life (1 Tim.3:16; Heb 1:8; John 5:26; 11:25; 14:6).

      It might be true that in Christ we may see the image of God, but all people are created in the image of God, though he (Jeshua/Jesus) is a man who has been able to stay pure, without sin, and therefore as son of man and son of God, he is the best representable of his heavenly Father, The God of gods.
      This man came from God but was not God coming to earth.

      “But now you seek to kill me, a man that has told you the truth, which I have heard from God: this did not Abraham.” (Joh 8:40 KJBPNV)

      By one man, who came from the earth, sin came unto the earth, but by another man, who came from God, sin could pass.

      “Therefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” (Ro 5:12 KJBPNV)

      “The first man is of the earth, earthly: the second man is the Lord from heaven.” (1Co 15:47 KJBPNV)

      “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man the Messiah Yahshua;” (1Ti 2:5 KJBPNV)

      “And to Yahshua the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaks better things than that of Abel.” (Heb 12:24 KJBPNV)

      “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” (1Ti 3:16 KJBPNV)

      “But now you seek to kill me, a man that has told you the truth, which I have heard from God: this did not Abraham.” (Joh 8:40 KJBPNV)

      “But to the Son he says, Your throne, O god, is forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom.” (Heb 1:8 KJBPNV)

      “For as the Father has life in himself; so has he given to the Son to have life in himself;” (Joh 5:26 KJBPNV)

      “Yahshua said to her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:” (Joh 11:25 KJBPNV)

      “Yahshua said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me.” (Joh 14:6 KJBPNV)

      As such we read that Allah, the God of Israel has life in Himself and has given the authority to His son to give life to others.

      “And Yahshua came and spoke to them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” (Mt 28:18 KJBPNV)

      “And has given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.” (Joh 5:27 KJBPNV)

      “No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received from my Father.” (Joh 10:18 KJBPNV)

      So do you not believe what is written in those verses?

      [I’ll continue later on the other aspects you mentioned.]

      Like

    • Dear Gershomid
      In one of my Bibles is wrtten in that verse:

      “5 ف ليكن فيكم هذا الفكر الذي في المسيح يسوع ايضا 6 الذي اذ كان في صورة الله لم يحسب خلسة ان يكون معادلا للّه” (في 2:5-6 Arabic)

      Which is translated in English:

      “5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with a god” (Philippians 5:2-6).

      or could be presented as:

      “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.”

      There the apostle Paul talks about Jesus being in the form of someone else and as such does not say that the person spoken about would be the other. Furthermore you seem to overlook the second part of the phrase:

      “5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in the Messiah Yahshua: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:” (Php 2:5-6 KJBPNV)

      Jesus being in the form of Alah/God or in the form of a god (= a respectful or important person, like angels, false gods Baal, Apollo and others are called a god, like Pharaoh and Moses – though I hope you do not consider them to be Allah or The Almighty God)
      The God of gods is One God Who is and shall be always the same. He does not change, though according to your thinking He is not unchangeable but took on the form of a man. (For what reason?) The Bible teaches us that Ishi/Jeshua/Jesus Christ “took upon him the form of a servant”

      “But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:” (Php 2:7 KJBPNV)

      It tells us also that he was like any other man, and as such was born, was bullied, was tortured and got even killed. Though God is an eternal being no man can see, whilst Jesus was seen by many and was really killed. He did not fake his death or resurrection. Are you then not believing Jesus died? Are you not believing it was God Who took Jesus out of the dead?

      Do you not believe Jesus was such a good man, that he put his own will aside to do the Will of his heavenly Father. When Jesus would be God, he naturally always would have done his own will and done the Will of God. Do you think then that Jesus prays to himself and put on a theatrical acct, pretending he can not do things from himself, though he as God (if he is Allah) can do anything and everything (?) asking:

      “I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which has sent me.” (Joh 5:30 KJBPNV)

      When he does not seek to do his own will, whose will is he then looking for to do?

      When looking at the original manuscripts, we learn that there is originally written that this man of flesh and blood did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped. Jesus all the time had been humble, never saying he was doing the acts he did. Always told he to thank not him but God. Though when he would be God, why did he tell people not to thank him whilst at the same time he says they must honour God and not him?

      Another facet you seem to be missing, the same as the Pharisees did, is that you, like me, Christ and all people who have been here on earth, were already known to God before they were born.

      “57 Then said the Jews to him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham? 58 Yahshua said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am.” (Joh 8:57-58 KJBPNV)

      Abraham the same as we were already notated in the Book of life and death, which is in the Hands of God. Furthermore Jesus in particular was already mentioned by Allah, long before Abraham was born. The first time we hear speaking about Jesus is in the Book of Genesis, where Allah Al-Aliyy (i.e.the Most High God – The Sublime God) and Al Khaleeq (= The Creator) promises to send a man coming out of a woman. And by that man there would come enmity and the chains of death would become broken. So long before Abraham was born, Ishi or Jeshua/Jesus was put in the picture. Regularly he and his position would be mentioned by prophets, born before and after Abraham, though the prophet Jesus would only come into his human presence some two thousand years ago, long after Abraham died already.

      “14 And Yahweh God said to the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon your belly shall you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life: 15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; it shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” (Ge 3:14-15 KJBPNV)

      Jesus also wanted people to come to know him and his heavenly Father. But he (Jesus) desired most that the people he (Jesus) came to encounter that they might behold his glory, which Allah had given him, and as such did not come from himself (Jesus).

      “Father, I will that they also, whom you have given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which you have given me: for you loved me before the foundation of the world.” (Joh 17:24 KJBPNV)

      If Jesus is God why does he say that God had given him this or that? And why does he say God loves him, when he himself is God and would then love himself?
      Strangely enough, that same man who claims to have received the authority from God, asks God to give him glory, and tells us that people would come to see him sitting at God His Right Hand. The Bible speaks about the son of man, who is also the son of God, who would be sitting next to God. Do you not believe this?

      “And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was.” (Joh 17:5 KJBPNV)

      “Then shall the King say to them on his right hand, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:” (Mt 25:34 KJBPNV)

      When Jesus is God would he not sit on God’s throne? So why does it say Jesus sits next to God?
      “Yahshua said to him, You have said: nevertheless I say to you, Hereafter shall you see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.” (Mt 26:64 KJBPNV)

      “And Yahshua said, I am: and you shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.” (Mr 14:62 KJBPNV)

      “So then after the Lord had spoken to them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.” (Mr 16:19 KJBPNV)

      “And David himself said in the book of Psalms, The LORD [Yahweh] said to my Lord, Sit you on my right hand,” (Lu 20:42 KJBPNV)

      “Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.” (Lu 22:69 KJBPNV)

      “25 For David speaks concerning him, I foresaw the Lord [Yahweh] always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because you will not leave my soul in hell, neither will you allow your Holy One to see corruption. 28 You have made known to me the ways of life; you shall make me full of joy with your countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up the Messiah to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Yahshua has God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he has shed forth this, which you now see and hear. 34 For David has not ascended into the heavens: but he said himself, The LORD [Yahweh] said to my Lord, Sit you on my right hand, 35 Until I make your foes your footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God has made that same Yahshua, whom you have crucified, both Lord and the Messiah.” (Ac 2:25-36 KJBPNV)

      Him has God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.” (Ac 5:31 KJBPNV)

      “55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Yahshua standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” (Ac 7:55-56 KJBPNV)

      “Who is he that condemns? It is the Messiah that died, yes rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.” (Ro 8:34 KJBPNV)

      “Which he worked in the Messiah, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,” (Eph 1:20 KJBPNV)

      “If you then are risen with the Messiah, seek those things which are above, where the Messiah sits on the right hand of God.” (Col 3:1 KJBPNV)

      “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;” (Heb 1:3 KJBPNV)

      “But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool?” (Heb 1:13 KJBPNV)

      Do you believe then that Jesus is not the messiah, because in your mind Jesus is God and would then sit on God’s throne, whilst the Messiah sits at the right hand of God?
      So about which man is the Bible speaking when Jesus is not a man but God, who is an eternal Spirit being, and as such not having a birth nor death?

      “But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;” (Heb 10:12 KJBPNV)

      “Looking unto Yahshua the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” (Heb 12:2 KJBPNV)

      To me, it seems pretty clear that Ishi or Jeshua /Yahushua/Jesus is the man spoken about in several of the Sacred Books, and that he, who was standing in the river Jordan, was called “my son” by God Himself is then the son of God and not an imposter or God faking a lot of things and misleading the people.
      Is there a reason why you or we should not believe Jesus is the son of God, like God Himself tells us in the injil or gospels?

      “And behold a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Mt 3:17 KJBPNV)

      Like

      • gershomid

        John 1:1-3
        1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

        2 The same was in the beginning with God.

        3 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2gf9gO4bGc a video that may help, for people interested

        Revelation 5: 13
        13 Then I heard every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that are in them, saying:

        “To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
        be blessing and honor and glory and power,
        forever and ever!”

        Like

        • When we look at the original text and at the Aramaic it might be much clearer:

          Yah Chanan (Jo 1:1-3): In the beginning the Word having been and the Word having been unto God and God having been the Word he having been, in the beginning, unto God all through his hand became: and without him not even one being whatever became. (Aramaic New Covenant; ANCJ Released: 1996 Contents: New Testament Source Used: Exegeses Bibles (1996)Location: Tyndale House, Cambridge, United Kingdom)

          “In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.” (Emphatic Diaglott – interlineary side)
          or
          “In the beginning existed the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was a god.” (The Monotessaron)

          God His speaking has always be with God. Also the thoughts were always by God and from the beginning God had a Plan with the world and wants that Plan to come to fulfilment. The promised one (Jesus) is part of that Plan.

          The Logos is a Word or result of speaking; The apostle John knowing that his master teacher was the promised one, by the Word of God or by God His speaking in the Gan eden, refers back to that spoken word which he considers to have come in the flesh and as such the Word having become a reality and the beginning of the New World.

          Do you not believe it is by God His Word that heaven and earth are created? (Sorry, you probably do, because you consider Jesus also to be God, and intermingle his words with those of his heavenly Father.)

          Like

    • Lots of Trinitarians come up with those verses you bring forward, though forget what God Himself and Jesus himself say about each other.

      What Christians should certainly not lose sight of is what Jehovah God himself says about that figure who wants to be baptised by his nephew in the river Jordan. There Jehovah Himself declares that Jesus is His beloved son. Later on, God Himself also tells us that this man of flesh and blood is approved by Him.

      The gospels bring us the story or the witness about that son of man, who is also called the son of David, the son of Abraham, but also the son of Adam as well as the second Adam.

      “The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.” (Mt 1:1 ASV)

      “And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins.” (Mt 1:21 ASV)

      “16 And Jesus when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him; 17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Mt 3:16-17 ASV)

      “And as Jesus passed by from thence, two blind men followed him, crying out, and saying, Have mercy on us, thou son of David.” (Mt 9:27 ASV)

      “Behold, my servant whom I have chosen; My beloved in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit upon him, And he shall declare judgment to the Gentiles.” (Mt 12:18 ASV)

      “While he was yet speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold, a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.” (Mt 17:5 ASV)

      “He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:” (Lu 1:32 ASV)

      “and the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily form, as a dove, upon him, and a voice came out of heaven, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.” (Lu 3:22 ASV)

      “And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my Son, my chosen: hear ye him.” (Lu 9:35 ASV)

      “For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there was borne such a voice to him by the Majestic Glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased:” (2Pe 1:17 ASV)

      From the Scriptures we do know that no man can see God and live, though many people have seen Christ, the man who came to declare God and tell people how they had to live to be in accordance with the Will of his heavenly Father, which we all should try to follow, like Jesus also wanted to do not his own will, but the will of his heavenly Father, the Only One True God. Jesus was one of the few men who succeeded totally to follow God’s instructions, and therefore God was so pleased with him. God even made him bigger than angels, though at first he was lower than angels.- Please do not forget Jehovah God is and always shall be the Most High, i.e higher than any being even when they might be gods. -God is the Only True God above all other gods. –

      “and I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my back; but my face shall not be seen.” (Ex 33:23 ASV)

      “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].” (Joh 1:18 ASV)

      “Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, [be] honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.” (1Ti 1:17 ASV)

      “who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honor and power eternal. Amen.” (1Ti 6:16 ASV)

      Yes Christ Jesus was not as his heavenly Father, Who is immortal and a Spirit Being. Jesus showed his wounds, after he was resurrected from the dead after he had died, to prove he was not a spirit, like his Father is a Spirit.

      “See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye behold me having.” (Lu 24:39 ASV)

      We should have no other gods to us like Jesus also had only Jehovah, the god of Israel as his god.

      “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” (Ex 20:3 ASV)

      “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” (De 5:7 ASV)

      “with whom Jehovah had made a covenant, and charged them, saying, Ye shall not fear other gods, nor bow yourselves to them, nor serve them, nor sacrifice to them:” (2Ki 17:35 ASV)

      “and go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the work of your hands; and I will do you no hurt.” (Jer 25:6 ASV)

      In 1 John 5:20 is not said that Jesus is the true God and eternal life, but that it is in Him, the One Who is True is the God, by Whom we get life: him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.“
      Jesus never put himself on the same foot as his God. Though Jesus came into the womb of a human being by the Spirit or Power of God, this never made him think to be more than any other man or god.

      Trinitarians and others like the J.W.’s who teach that Christ had a pre-human existence, also come up with the argumentation that “in the form of God” means that Christ had the nature of God before his birth, and it was this which he sacrificed in coming to the earth to live as a human.
      If “in the form of God” means the very nature of God, then Christ could not have been “Very God” while on earth, as trinitarians assert, since this is what he is said to have sacrificed and left behind in coming to the earth.

      The Greek word “morphe” (translated “form”) does not refer to “essential nature” as the trinitarian cause requires. This is proven by the following:
      a. “Eidos,” not “morphe” is the Greek word which conveys the idea of “essential nature”. As Liddell and Scott point out in their lexicon, “morphe” means form, shape, fine, beautiful form or shape, figure, fashion, appearance, outward form or semblance. It is opposed to “Eidos” which means “true form”.
      b. In the context of this passage, it is stated that Christ “took upon him the form of a servant” (Php 2: 7). But what is the form of a servant (Grk. “doulos,” a slave)? The “essential nature” of a slave is the same as that of any other human being. The form, therefore, must refer to the semblance or demeanour of a slave as the distinguishing characteristic.
      c. “morphe” occurs in only one other place in the N.T.- (Mr 16:12), and here it clearly does not mean “essential nature”. Jesus appeared “in another form,” but this could not refer to a change of his essential nature since the reason why he appeared to be in another form was because the disciples’ “eyes were holden”. (Lu 24:16) cf. (Lu 43: 31). Not even a trinitarian or a J.W. would be prepared to say that Christ’s essential nature was changed after his resurrection and glorification.

      Like

      • gershomid

        Revelation 5: 13
        13 Then I heard every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that are in them, saying:

        “To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
        be blessing and honor and glory and power,
        forever and ever!”

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2gf9gO4bGc This video may help if your interested.

        I know a little Greek and a little Hebrew.
        The little Greek has a small restaurant and the little Hebrew is a tailor. LOL

        Like

        • That text you mention does not say that Jesus is God, though says there is given honour to Him Who sits on the throne, who is The God of Jesus and God of Israel. Plus it says also there is given honour to the Lamb, who is Jesus Christ the Messiah, the son of man and son of God.. God has all the power but He gave also power to His only begotten son, Jesu Christ.

          Like

        • The debate on the video going out from Trinitarians, fully ‘indoctrinated’ by their theology of that threeheaded god, whilst the Jew and non-trinitarian Christian clearly keep to the Biblical account and prefer to give the Word of God all value instead of going by the historical many false teachings. Also very good that those non-trinitarians also peak about the non-pre-existence of Christ, because he became only into being many centuries after Abraham and David, being of the seed of David (= something which comes after the seed is prepared) and as such is also the son of David. A son never comes before his parent. Hopefully you also listened very carefully to Anthony Buzzard and Joseph Good who give a good Biblical standpoint.

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        • Such debates about the position of Jesus are not new and probably shall be for years to be another part of discussion and friction between believers, non-believers, real followers of Christ and name-Christians, Jehudian (Jews and Jeshuaists) and goy.

          Like

        • Please remember that Jesus asks to believe in the son of God and in Him Who had sent the son of God, who is also a son of man.

          Like

        • Are you not noticing that the text you are mentioning is about two different figures … and not about one person?

          Like

  3. gershomid

    And I have another question, I disagree that Christians in the new covenant need to do the sabbath, but if it was can I not still do good work on the Sabbath?
    like in Matthew 12: 11-13
    11 Then He said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is LAWFUL to DO GOOD on the Sabbath.” 13 Then He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other.

    So if we as Christians are still instituted to do the sabbath, Jesus said that it is lawful to do good on the sabbath, but as Christians when is the time we are allowed to do bad? Christians do good work on the Sabbath and on every other day of the week, which makes the Sabbath no different practically speaking from any other day for Christians because as Christians we do good work every day.

    This is how I would view the sabbath if I think it was still commanded under the Law of Jesus Christ.

    Like

    • Dear Gershomid,

      according to me you have good reason to disagree that Christians in the new covenant need to do the sabbath, in a strict sense of the word.

      Several stories Jesus tells about our behaviour to keep and our way to handle the Torah, gives enough information to know that we should learn to live not according to the letter, but according to the spirit of the Law.
      We should know that the world continually turns around and every day people will have to need and to do things. As such human beings shall need doctors, firefighters, and other people giving their services on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, but also on Friday, Sabbath, or Saturday as well as on Sunday. Each day of the week there have to be people caring for othter people that they might have their daily bread, or energy, or water, etc.

      To your question

      but if it was can I not still do good work on the Sabbath?

      there Christ Jesus gives us also some good answers. I think too we can do good work on any day of the week, even be it Sabbath or Sunday. Though I wonder if we, so each of us, do not need a ‘sabbath”, meaning a day off work and a day to honour God?

      When we do have to rest the seventh day, and a seventh year, keeping a sabbath and keeping a sabbath year, for each of us this would be different because we all are born on another day in another year. So the seventh day of my life could well be another or different day than the seventh day of your life. Also, to keep to the sabbath year, that would be another seventh year for you and me or another person.

      You say

      Christians do good work on the Sabbath and on every other day of the week, which makes the Sabbath no different practically speaking from any other day for Christians because as Christians we do good work every day.

      But are you really convinced that all Christians do good work on the Sabbath and on every other day of the week? I have my doubts about that. There might be lots of Christians, the same as there might be lots of unbelievers, who do good works on the Sabbath, the same as on other days, but there are also lots of Christians who do bad works on the sabbath as well as on other days of the week.

      It naturally would be lovely if Christians would do every day good works, but we should be aware that as human beings we can do wrong things at any moment of the day and night. Christians are not at all excluded from going wrong or making mistakes. Also Christ warns us that we should be very careful about such matter.

      Like

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